In this Marketing Over Coffee:
Learn about how they shop, what they think of brands, who influences them, and more!
Brought to you by our sponsors: Wix Studio and NetSuite
What inspired the Gen Z Parent study?
All Gen Zs are not broke and stressed out about money
They will pay for value that aligns with their principles, and they love store brands
65% of Gen Z Dads doing the grocery shopping
11:11 Wix Studio is the web platform that gives agencies and enterprises the end-to-end efficiency to design, develop and deliver exactly the way they want to!
Where do Gen Z parents go when their peers aren’t having kids?
They still don’t have the Go To source
The era of the frenemy Instamom is over
Parents are less sad, less worried
20:42 – 22:10 NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.
The rise of the trades and doing better as homeowners
If you back an issue, you have to go all the way
Gen Z parent celebs are starting to show up, will they align with brands or start their own?
Kasi on LinkedIn or at Culture Bureau
Book Recco: Bird by Bird, the beloved book on writing by Anne Lamott
Gen AI Course Updates done: Special Discount on the newest Generative AI for Marketing Course! Hands on excercises to put AI to work for you! USE CODE MOC now!
Join John, Chris and Katie on threads, or on LinkedIn: Chris, John, and Katie
Sign up for the Marketing Over Coffee Newsletter to get early access!
Our theme song is Mellow G by Fonkmasters.
Machine-Generated Transcript
What follows is an AI-generated transcript. The transcript may contain errors and is not a substitute for listening to the episode.
John Wall – 00:00
Today’s episode is brought to you by Netsuite and Wix Studio.
Speaker 2 – 00:09
This is marketing over coffee with Christopher Penn and John Wall.
John Wall – 00:17
Good morning. Welcome to marketing over coffee. I’m John Wall. Today I had a pitch come in talking about Gen Z and millennial parents so often. I mean, I’ve complained on the show all the time about how people have all these segments, and it’s basically just an excuse for people to complain about, employees. And so I usually ignore all this stuff, but this was some very interesting stuff as far as. And it was funny, too, that Gen Z parents, which is great because, you talk about Gen Z, but, okay, what are their parents like? Where do they go? And so Cassie Bruno is here with us this morning. She’s going to talk to us about this study and everything else that she does. Cassie, thanks for joining us.
Kasi Bruno – 00:53
Thank you for having me.
John Wall – 00:54
Okay, so tell us about the origin of this study. What drove you to do this, and what’s the story behind the story?
Kasi Bruno – 01:01
I’ve always been interested in researching groups that marketers are ignoring a little bit. Looking ahead at what’s coming. Let’s find out more about what’s around the corner. And so I was in a meeting five years ago, and one of the clients, she was the head of, a baby category for a really big brand. And she said, “Well, we’ve got millennial parents cracked. What are you doing about Gen Z parents?” And it sort of. It was almost like the record scratch in the room where everybody was like, “Sorry, did we hear that? Right?” And she said, “One in five, 15% of my baby category buyer is already Gen Z.” So this is five years ago. And she said, “There’s no information about them. No one’s talking about it. What are you going to do with that?”
And that was a bit of a wake up call for me. And I thought, “Okay, Gen Zs are a little young, but that’s a really interesting thought.” And so I kind of parked it in the back of my mind for a couple of years and then decided to. It was always kind of nagging at me in the back of my head. I was like, “Oh, that is really the next. That’s really interesting.” And I’d just done a really big study on marketing to millennial dads that was really overlooked. And in terms of that group was really overlooked by marketers and misunderstood. And so I started digging into Gen Z parents that became this study, in the end, was the more we learned about Gen Z parents in the early days, the more it was different than millennial parents, and the more it was different from what we understood about Gen Zs without kids.
And so I guess I just kept following that thread because there was so much that was so interesting and just challenged beliefs about parents and Gen Zs that were like, “Okay, this is a really interesting place to dig.” So this research, for a few years, people looked at me like I was crazy, because a lot of the clients I was speaking to have children who are Gen Z. So kids who were between the ages of roughly 12 and 27 years old. And they were like, “Wait a minute. Gen Z parents? Like my kids having kids.” And so people looked at me like, “What are you, what are you talking about?” for a while. And then, we started studying this a couple of years ago, properly. And in those two years, it’s really. I’ve noticed a shift. People don’t look at me so much like I’m crazy, but now they’re pretty interested in the topic because, one in five births in the United States is to a Gen Z mother. And we see that Gen Z parents are going to be the majority of parents in the next few years.
So that is really interesting to me. The fact that nobody’s paying attention to it yet, that was really interesting to me. And I think the fact that people thought I was a little crazy may have also made it more interesting to me, because when I look back at a lot of my work, it kind of pushes against headlines. I try to find the provocative angle, the thing that maybe no one’s talking about or no one wants to be talking about. And so when I trace things back throughout all my work, I think that kind of storytelling and making people kind of simultaneously surprised, but also going, “Oh, that makes total sense now that I hear about that,” is exciting to me.
John Wall – 04:29
The first thing marketers are always interested in is money shopping brands. So what kind of stuff did you find out from digging into these groups?
Kasi Bruno – 04:38
So it’s really interesting, right? All of the headlines would have you think that Gen Zs are completely broke and are totally stressed out about money and flailing financially. And while we found in our research that they are incredibly stressed about money, Gen Z’s are stressed about money. Gen Z parents are stressed about money. Millennial parents are stressed about money. It is no surprise that they’re all stressed about money. But what we did find that was really interesting is while they’re stressed out financially, they are really uncompromising when it comes to buying.
So it’s important to note, in our research, we have been researching not only Gen Z parents, but also millennial parents. So people 28 to 40 with children, and also Gen Z’s, 20 to 27 without children, because that’s where you can find some of the interesting differences. So if we didn’t have the millennial data or the Gen Z, no kid data, we couldn’t really tell what was surprising, what was different.
But when you actually compare those three groups, you find things about Gen Z parents where you go, “Okay, this is not what I have been reading about for the past five years across the media, the story is a lot more nuanced.” So in shopping, for example, number one stressor, we ask people, “What are you stressed out about?” The number one thing is money. But then when we start asking people questions about shopping and what’s worth paying more for, you see that Gen Z parents in particular, are not compromising. They are far more likely to say that they will pay more for something that is new and different than what is currently available. They’re far more likely to say that they will pay for something that aligns with their political beliefs. That one’s not so surprising. But it’s interesting that they’ll pay more. They will. They say, “I will pay more for brands that I think are best, and I won’t worry too much about price.”
So, of course, like intention and what people say they’ll do, and then what they actually do is always a little bit different. But it’s just so funny how off the charts the parents agreement to those statements are the Gen Z parents compared to Gen Z’s without kids and millennials without kids. The other really interesting thing we see with the money is that when we look at store brands and we look at store brands versus national brands, this is kind of a crazy story here. It’s so fascinating.
When we look at Gen Z parents, they love store brands. And what’s funny about that is, I did a study almost ten years ago about millennial dads, and marketing to millennial dads and store brands for millennials were like, so, okay. And even in this research with the millennials, what we see is they’re like, when you ask them, “Store brands are just as good as national brands.” They’re kind of like, “Yeah, a little bit.” Gen Z parents are like 85% like, “Yes, store brands are just as good as national brands.” And when you dig in and you look at the data, I mean, we can slice it 100 ways here. There are just so many interesting findings around this affinity towards store brands. So your private label brands, if you will.
John Wall – 08:08
Yeah, that’s interesting. Was there anything that gave you an indication as to why? And it is. It’s very interesting that, yeah, we hear so much about money being the problem. So you think they would just be bargain buyers of everything, but they are actually giving more thought to what they’re supporting with their money being more discerning about their purchasing, which is interesting. So did you find anything that made? Is it because they know the store brands are the same as the regular brands or they don’t care about the cache of the. Whatever you’d get from the conglomerates? Where did that come from?
Kasi Bruno – 08:36
It’s funny, it’s. I don’t think they see the distinction as much because Gen Zs have grown up with store brands being really solid. I think for those of us who grew up before Gen Z’s, store brands were really the sacrifice discount, not necessarily the highest quality products. But now you look across the board and store brands aren’t always priced way differently or much lower than national brands. The store brands can have status and cachet. And, this is also a generation that loves a dupe. And from personal care, cosmetics, fashion, we are seeing that Gen Zs love to find, like, to your point about being discerning, they’re like, “Where can I get the exact same quality and maybe pay a little less? How can I outsmart this?” And so I think it’s a number of different factors. But what we find that’s really interesting in the store brand conversation is the dad angle on store brands.
So back when we did millennial dads and when we studied millennial dads, and we do have millennial dads in this study as well, for comparison, millennial dads don’t want anything to do with store brands. They’re like, “Nope, national brand innovation comes from national brands. Quality comes from national brands.” And with Gen Z parents, it’s actually the reverse. Gen Z dads love store brands even more than Gen Z moms, which is really interesting. And so when we looked across categories and said, “How often do you shop store brand in all of these categories, from personal care to diapers to clothing?” And Gen Z dads, almost in every category, said they were more likely to buy store brand than Gen Z moms. I mean, millennial dads were the least likely, and they were the more likely to say, “I almost never buy store brand.” So it was just a really interesting flip on how millennial dads felt about store brands. So that’s kind of, if you’re a national brand, that’s, I think, something to pay attention to, especially because Gen Z dads, like 65% of them say they’re doing the grocery shopping for the family.
John Wall – 11:06
That is interesting. A bunch of stuff I want to dig into further with this, but before we dive into that, we want to thank Wix Studio for their support of marketing over coffee. I’ve only got one minute to tell you about Wix Studio, the web platform for agencies and enterprises. Whether you manage ten sites or 1000, here are a few things you can do from start to finish in a minute or less on studio: Set up native marketing integrations in a click. Reuse templates, widgets and sections across sites. Create a seamless handover by adding tutorials, guides and more to client dashboards. Work on the same canvas at the same time with all your team members, and leverage best in class SEO defaults like server side rendering and automated structured data markup across all your Wix sites. Time’s up, but the list keeps going. Step into Wix Studio and see for yourself. Check it out over at wix studio.com and we thank them for their support of the show.
Okay, you mentioned information and influence. You had a, it said that many Gen Z parents can’t go to their friends for brands and product information. Talk about that. How, how is the way they’re deciding to make these purchases and who influences them? How has that changed?
Kasi Bruno – 12:10
Yeah, it’s interesting because if you think about it, a lot of these young parents, what we see is they are right now, at least often, the first and only of their friends to have children. So they are, and we did a whole bunch of interviews and some qual with a few dozen Gen Z parents. And sometimes we did them as couples, sometimes we talked to them when they were alone. And this idea of “I can’t go to my friends” came out in some of those conversations.
And it was really interesting because we had one young woman say, “There was this woman at work and I kind of call her, I call her my fairy godmother because she has three daughters and she really kind of showed me the ropes and she gave me some hand me downs and she was great because I couldn’t go to any of my friends.” And so when we asked people, “Where do you go for information about products and brands?” What was really interesting is Gen Zs without kids, friends were in the top five. “Yeah, I go to my friends.” And millennial parents had friends up there. Not quite top five, but, call it top seven. “Yeah, I can go to my friends.” Gen Z parents: Friends are nowhere to be found on the list.
And so when you look at where they’re going, it’s quite decentralized, which we found really interesting because Gen Zs without kids, you ask them where they go and what they trust, and it’s kind of concentrated in a handful of things. Not very surprising. Like, Gen Zs are going, they’re going to TikTok, they’re going to YouTube, they’re going to Amazon. And this is for brand or product information. And then millennials are pretty concentrated in a couple of places, millennial parents. And then when you look at Gen Z parents, it’s so spread out across the board, new school platforms, old school information sources. They’re saying things like, “It’s like a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Yeah. Magazine ads, okay? Brand video.” And, and of course, they’ve got YouTube and they’ve got Amazon reviews.
And so what we just see is that what that tells me, and when I pair that with what we heard from a lot of these young parents was like, “I’m discerning, so I can figure stuff out.” We had a mom say, “There’s nothing much out there for us young moms, but we are catching on fast.” So they have confidence that they can figure it out. And it also tells me that they haven’t found their go-to places that get them as parents. And they told us as much. They said, “Yeah, nobody gets it yet. Nobody’s talking to me as a parent yet.” And so when we see that decentralized, spread out set of information sources, I think that just tells me they think they can navigate it and figure it out. And also, they are not quite landing their places and platforms for parenting yet.
John Wall – 15:15
Yeah, that’s interesting. And this does make sense now, because when I first read that, I was like, “Well, why don’t they have anyone to talk to?” And now I get it. It’s like that group is in the middle of transitioning, like you said. So it’s, yeah, you could be around, and none of your friends are trying to figure out what the right stroller is. And that’s a whole huge, giant thing to go through. You mentioned, you said another thing, talking about the era of the frenemy Insta mom influencer is over. What, what does that actually mean? Do I get this right? It’s like, you see these moms on Instagram and they’re doing everything perfect, and you hate them, but you’re still taking their advice. Is that the idea there?
Kasi Bruno – 15:48
That was definitely the millennial vibe for influence, for sure, for millennial parenting. And it’s interesting, right? Because we have seen this shift overall influence from this picture perfect Instagram aesthetic to TikTok being far more authentic seeming and natural and a little bit messier. And that is also reflected in parenting. So, for Gen Z parents, we also see a huge decline instagram as a trusted source for information, which is really interesting. And TikTok is up there. And again, that’s, that falls in line with just generally Gen Z patterns.
But Gen Z parents in particular, it’s kind of interesting to look at their idea of influence, and they really want influencers who are authentic and who aren’t trying to sell them on something. They’re quite pragmatic in many ways, which is really interesting. And, I think you see influencers of all different kinds and styles and with different backgrounds and different stories and even of all ages, I think. We talk about Gen Z parents are really relying on this decentralized network of information, influencers of all ages and stages. They don’t have one person that they are just going to as the authority on parenting.
When we talked to these parents, they were like, “Yep, I can watch ten different TikTok videos and kind of figure out what works for me.” And so it’s, it’s very interesting when you look at the aesthetic, even of parents, Gen Z parents on TikTok, it is not perfect. They’re not sitting in a pristine kitchen telling you how to cook something incredible. They’re holding a baby, brushing their teeth with, a pile of laundry behind them. And so it’s, it’s quite interesting. That’s going to change the face of parenthood quite a bit.
John Wall – 17:50
Yeah, that’s really interesting, because that tracks with some stuff that I’ve been doing some other research on talking about, this youngest generation of the same thing, them having so many sources. And they do have to hit multiple sources and arrive at the truth themselves because they no longer trust any one specific source. And that’s just kind of the state of media today. But so talking about that, you know, mistrust and emotions, too, I mean, dig into that a little bit, because you’ve had a whole section talking about emotions and outlook and how the headlines, what we think their emotions should be versus what their emotions actually are and where they think things are going.
Kasi Bruno – 18:25
This is another one where we expected one thing and got entirely another thing. So we asked people the emotions they feel most and gave them a range of emotions, like two dozen. And what was really interesting is you expect the things to come out that you hear and read about all the time, anxious and lonely and unhappy and stressed out and worried and all these things. We actually didn’t get tons of that stuff. We got a little bit of that, of course, from Gen Z parents. But what was interesting is when you looked at Gen Zs without kids, against Gen Z parents, with parenthood came more positive emotions. And that’s not surprising, right? That if you’re a parent, you might have feel more love and more happiness. But what was really interesting was with parenthood came fewer negative emotions.
So things like loneliness went way down when people were parents. And again, you can say maybe some of these people started out less lonely and began like. We don’t know the exact reason why, but we just found it interesting that even worry goes down for Gen Z parents, sadness goes down for Gen Z parents when you compare Gen Zs without kids and Gen Z parents. And so we just sort of found that really interesting because as marketers, we talk about this young group is very lonely and isolated, and we may have to think a little bit differently about them as parents. Now, sure, they’re not all feeling less lonely and less worried and less sad, but it was a really marked pattern in the data. And so we just found that to be really interesting that maybe this narrative of negativity may not be the right one for parents.
John Wall – 20:35
Okay, I want to talk about dads, too, because you mentioned some differences between the Gen Zs and millennials. Before we do. We just have to take a second. We want to thank Netsuite by Oracle for their support of marketing over coffee. For all of our clients, there comes a point where they get large enough and they’re managing so many systems that you’re just caught up in the bureaucracy of it all. You’re actually spending more maintaining all this complexity. Smart businesses reduce costs and headaches when they get large enough by graduating to Netsuite by Oracle.
Netsuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one platform and one source of truth. With Netsuite, you reduce it costs because Netsuite lives in the cloud with no hardware required access to from anywhere. You cut the cost of maintaining multiple systems because you’ve got one unified business management suite. You improve efficiency by bringing all your major business processes into one platform, slashing manual tasks and errors. Over 37,000 companies have already made the move. So do the math. See how you’ll profit with Netsuite.
Again, we’ve seen it firsthand for our clients. Instead of building all these integrations or running batch reports so that you can get inventory and the financials in order, along with the marketing and sales stuff, just get it all one platform. And of course, having it in the cloud makes a whole slew of headaches go away. By popular demand, Netsuite has extended its one of a kind, flexible financing program for a few more weeks. Head to netsuite.com/coffee. That’s netsuite.com/coffee. Again, netsuite.com/coffee. And we thank Netsuite by Oracle for their support of the show.
Okay, so you mentioned Gen Z dads being the primary grocery shopper, which was interesting to me. And then, and you said that they are markedly different from the millennials as far as the millennials hating brands, store brands, and Gen Z being okay with that, what other stuff do we need to know about that Gen Z grocery buyer? Is that an opportunity that brands need to be jumping on, or what’s going on there?
Kasi Bruno – 22:33
I think the Gen Z dad is really interesting. Every time we fielded research, we are like, “There is something happening here with the Gen Z dads that we are constantly surprised by,” the dad data. So really, Gen Z dads, they’re very much like a principled and pragmatic shopper. So we look at things like 65% of them say that they are the primary grocery shopper. And that is up from millennial dads, who are pretty groundbreaking at 50%. And marketers were really late in speaking to millennial dads. And marketers, until ten years ago, were making fun of dads in their advertising and obviously suffered a lot of backlash for that. And so hopefully, what we get to is a place where people are now really considering dad being thoughtful about dad. So 65% of Gen Z dads say that the primary grocery shopper.
We know that Gen Z dads have the best opinion of store brands across every single category. Across every single category, Gen Z dads are far more likely to say that they always are, mostly by store brand. That’s compared to millennial parents. That’s compared to Gen Z moms. I think it’s a really big rethink if you are a national brand.
I think what’s also interesting is this principled side. So we asked, obviously, about things like political and social issues and brands that believe what you believe and things like that. And Gen Z dads are more likely than Gen Z moms, Gen Zs without kids and millennial parents to agree that it’s important to know what political and social issues a brand supports before I buy. They’re also way more likely, almost twice as likely to say that they’d pay more for brands that take a political or social stand that they agree with. So they’re quite principled, which is really interesting. And by the way, when you cut this for, we ask people, “If you’re forced to vote today for Trump or Biden, who would you vote for?” And when you cut the data with, that doesn’t really change it all that much, which is fascinating. So again, it doesn’t mean that it’s one set of beliefs that people are going to buy to, but what’s important is you tell me what you believe and then I make my choice.
John Wall – 24:55
Yeah, yeah, that’s funny. That was the line that I was thinking on, polling on, was that their beliefs in what they’re actually buying matters. But it doesn’t change the fact that as a brand, you’ve got to be putting out what you stand for there, because either side will make a decision based on that. Yeah. And that’s really interesting. That goes to another thing, too, then. So from the stuff that you’ve seen here, what other kind of advice would you give to brands as far as based on this data? What should they be changing that is maybe not intuitive or what mistakes are they making and where do they need to go?
Kasi Bruno – 25:25
This group is really nuanced. We’ve been kind of referring to them as these radical traditionalists because, we’ve been talking about them, Gen Zs, as if they’re going to blow up every institution to a certain degree. We do this about every young generation. They’re going to reimagine all the things, family, government, education, all these things. There is a really dominant narrative about this group, but it’s far more nuanced than that. Gen Z homeownership is in better shape than millennial homeownership at the same age and stage. So we look at the rise in trades and going to trade schools is really important because when you look at why a lot of young people are going, “I want to make money. I want to buy a house. I want to be stable.” Meanwhile, the narrative we get is like, “Oh, they don’t want houses.” It’s like, that might not be all entirely true.
We actually asked people some quite traditional questions just to see how much they agreed and disagreed with it. And things like “Home ownership is a sign of a good parent.” “Small towns are better than big cities in terms of raising a family.” “Two parent households are better for children than single parent households.” Gen Z parents, there are a lot of parents who agree with these statements. So I think this narrative that everyone is very anti-establishment and anti the way things have always been, it’s not always the case. And so I think there is a shift that, marketers need to remember that there are a lot of young parents for whom traditional markers and milestones still do matter.
I think we hear about the financial piece and how stressed out they are about money, which is true, they are stressed, but they are also savvy and very non compromising. So it’s about value, it’s not just about price. We didn’t get into this too much, but when we look at brands being allies to different communities, we definitely do see that Gen Z parents say, “Don’t be an ally in advertising only. If you are going to support something, support it. Support it behind the scenes, support it financially and be a really stable ally, if you say you are.”
John Wall – 27:47
Right, yeah, that’s true. Because a lot of brands will, whether you call it greenwashing or whatever they’re doing, they go on certain things. And so you’re saying that identify, and it’s amazing because once they make that mark, they usually tend to lose the other side. Like, they actually drop. But so you’re saying that they also have to follow through and go 100%.
Kasi Bruno – 28:06
And we asked a lot about that in our latest round of research. And again, no matter the political belief, people said, “Walk the talk.” If you say you’re going to support it. We asked people, “What about testing the waters and supporting a little bit and then pulling back if there’s backlash?” And that was the, like, least chosen response. It’s like, believe it and stick with it and at least you’re clear about what that is.
John Wall – 28:35
That’s interesting. Now, always when you dig into research and you start doing some stuff, you have the problem where it raises more questions. Were there other things that came out of this that you want to solve and will that go into a next study for you or what will you do with that kind of stuff?
Kasi Bruno – 28:49
Oh, for sure. In this case, every time we looked at answer, it gave us a dozen more questions. And so each round of research, we dig into those things. We share the rounds of research with clients, and then their questions inform the next round. So for us, this is ongoing. We’ve been at this for about two years and fielding surveys and studies for every about, I would say, seven or eight months, going to field every seven or eight months, and also having conversations, conducting interviews, that sort of thing. And it’s really interesting because we’re starting to see some really cool patterns, but also really interesting questions every single time. So, yes, we are constantly learning. And you know what’s going to be interesting now? We’ve got some Gen Z celebrity parents starting to join Kylie Jenner, right? Because she was sort of the most popular Gen Z mom and one of the few. But now, we’ll see Haley Bieber. Sophia Richie has just had a baby. So it’ll be interesting. The more celebrity, young celebrities start parenting, how that shifts the influence piece, I think that’s a big question for us.
John Wall – 30:08
Yeah. And do you think it’ll run the same route of they’ll start to just line up with brands, or will it be something different?
Kasi Bruno – 30:13
They’ll start to line up with brands. I’m sure they will create their own brands. Yeah. Create their own communities. We’ll see. It’ll be, I mean, many of them already have their own brands, but it will be really interesting to see. It’ll be interesting to see if parenthood retains that kind of natural and messy TikTok aesthetic or if it starts to get a little more polished and a little more curated. And if we fall back into that, okay.
John Wall – 30:39
If somebody wants to learn more about the research or talk to you about doing other stuff, what’s the best way to get in touch?
Kasi Bruno – 30:45
LinkedIn is great. Find me on LinkedIn or cultureburo.com is also great.
John Wall – 30:50
That sounds great. We’ll include both those in the show notes so people can find out more as we go out the door. Any trade mags or entertainment media, books, anything that you’ve picked up recently that you can recommend for our audience?
Kasi Bruno – 31:03
Oh, gosh. Does it have to be marketing related?
John Wall – 31:06
No, absolutely not. This is a chance to kind of just. What the heck’s going on?
Kasi Bruno – 31:10
I just finished Ann LaMott’s book, *Bird by Bird*, and it is about writing and storytelling and life, and it is fantastic. I highly recommend it.
John Wall – 31:25
Oh, that sounds, that actually came up in Ted Lasso. That was part of that whole story, but I’ve never actually picked the thing up. So that’s a great recommendation. I’ll go ahead. That’ll be in the show notes for everybody who wants it. All right. So Cassie Bruno, thanks for joining us.
Kasi Bruno – 31:40
Thank you so much for having me.
John Wall – 31:42
All right, that’ll do it for this week. So until next week, enjoy the coffee.
Speaker 2 – 31:46
You’ve been listening to marketing over coffee. Christopher Penn blogs@christopherspenn.com. Read more from John J. Wall at JW 5150 dot com. The marketing over coffee theme song is called Melo G by funk Masters, and you can find it at musicale from Mevio. Or follow the link in our show notes.
